like a fish needs a bicycle...

I can't really comment specifically on the race subject at hand, other than the fact that I knew where you were coming from when you posted it, and to me it felt like mocking the MTV view of the "ghetto" and the strange twists and turns that the entertainment industry has taken. I was not offended at all...but then, most people would see me as a (somewhat) white, middle-class, suburban girl. ;-)

On the blogging issue...well, I believe I commented on that a few days ago on my blog...mostly a statement on my vision for my blog, and why I choose not to talk about certain things on my blog. :-)

much love for trying to get this straightened out...our little blog community has been having some tough days recently.

It is possible -- POSSIBLE -- that negin is a genius.

This is GATEAU Fabulous.

Everyone will never understand you! You just have to keep being your awsome self --no matter what!
Love, me

Ok Nas, I'm with you. Let's open a dialogue on race. Give me a few days to think about it and I'll either post here or devote an entry to it. I commend you for this post and your response to the entire situation. With Negin's help you have found a positive path out of the quagmire and I plan to walk with you along it.

Naseem - I am in the process of writing a personal e-mail to you. But, I can tell you here that this situation has caused me a whole lot of agitation and anxiety too... and the feelings of wanting to shy away from ever addressing issues of race and image and media, etc definitely crossed my mind, as well. But, as you stated this is our Most Challenging Issue, which means it's not easy and no one's categorically right and we'll all get confused by it. We also have an inescapable obligation to address it. And the associations we have across culture and race place greater responsibility on our shoulders to not ignore that obligation.

Thank you for opening up this dialogue. And perhaps it's something that can happen on a community-level outside of the blogosphere as well. Because, I'm sure we're all talking about it anyways.

I did want to say that I think this is what I had hoped the impact of my comments would be -- that we would stop going down the road we were going and re-direct our attention towards taking a serious look at how images, words and jokes affect a healthy sense of self for ALL people, as well as our understanding of the oneness of humanity... This seems particulary important to me while we continue to live in a society that ascribes, even if it is in a subtle or subconscious way, labels of superiority and inferiority to racial/class groups and where superiority and inferiority complexes continue to surface in the hearts and minds of people on either side of "the color-line."

I also have been thinking about the way in which I stated my feelings on your previous posting. While I would have said something similar had this conversation happened in public or in a group of people I was interacting with in-person, the problem with the web is that postings and comments are a lot more permanent than an in-person conversation. And there's a lot more time to seethe and mull over hurtful comments. It's a lesson for me about the venue of the web and how my own choice of words is much more important out here than in the living rooms of our friends and co-community members.

Naseem - I love you for opening this dialogue, for being honest and for not shying away.

Thank you.

The commoditization of words such as ghetto, gay, retarded ... cotton-picking, gyped, jewed — and many others — is something that really bothers me. Should it? I'm at work so must dash off this comment quickly. I'd love to keep reading your (collective) thoughts on these issues.

For me, the symbolism behind these words is often too potent to accept. For instance, while most people don't actively think of Gypsies/Roma when they used the word "gyped" (if they even know the connotation), it strikes me that each use of the word reinforces the stereotype it is based upon (usually subconsciously). "Cotton-pickin" * is in a slightly different class. Though most etymologies don't acknowledge it, I am convinced that the phrase symbolically refers to slaves and/or sharecroppers, and by extension, basically is a synonym for "black" (or more offensive equivalents). This etymology being perhaps less obvious than "gyped," its use probably does not, any longer, imply that the speaker is calling the thusly-described individuals "black", "lowborn", "sharecropper", "slave", etc. Nevertheless, whenever I hear it now, it re-demeans the original recipients of the term — it disrespects them.

HOWEVER... language is fluid. Once upon a time "gay" just mean happy. Now it means something entirely different. I accept this without question. So what grounds do I have for questioning the evolution of the word "ghetto" from small ethnic enclaves (particularly in Central/Eastern Europe, particularly with Jews) into a term for the primarily-black inner cities of America and now into a popular term meaning... well, see the original post for definition =).

Concluding: I originally found myself in the offended camp, offended on behalf of others but not myself. Obviously I get offended a lot, since these terms are thrown about quite a bit. In the end, I don't know that "feeling offended" is a) appropriate, b) helpful, c) relevant to anything at all. So I just don't know what to make of it. After all, did anyone ever care about the term "ghetto blaster" in the 80's? Anyone?

(* perhaps a Texas-specific adjective, used as "get your cotton-picking hands off that!")

people, this is fabulous. i'm happy to read everyone's comments and i hope there are more coming. sholeh, thanks for acknowledging the difficulties of blogging--i think our community can hit some rough spots some times. you just never can tell how certain things will affect different people.

lev, i think your statement, while potentially true, might be *slightly* biased. :) but thanks for sharing it. isaac, thank you for the props. tem, i appreciate the love. and george, truly, thanks for the support and willingness, always.

and stephen, excellent points. i think gypped is one of those that has been almost completely dissociated from its original meaning. much like "picnic," which originally came from "pick a n----" and referred to the practice of white people sitting on blankets, eating, and watching black people get lynched. now, the very thought of that makes me shudder, but i would venture to say that picnic is a pretty safe, normal word these days. so it's hard to draw those lines...

now, you should all know that kari is my girl. we actually had lunch together today, and that was awesome. we so love that we can all be open and authentic about all of this. also, there is a really fascinating corrollary to this whole dialogue on her blog, and it raises all kinds of other issues as well. click below... and keep up the discussion! http://carlson.typepad.com/if_i_only_had_a_blog/2005/02/discuss_amongst.html#comments

Nas, a small correction. There's no need to draw lines for the word picnic. It is perfectly safe and innocuous. The etymology is from the French pique-nique, used to describe a pot luck dinner. Only later did the term come to describe an outdoor meal.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=picnic

There are several hoaxes floating around on the internet, and this is one of them. The entire situation is the result of a joke in very poor taste, fully explicated here:

http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/library/blpicnic.htm

It would be unfortunate if this urban legend were to take hold, and people were suddenly afraid to use the word. To me it's a damning indictment of the current climate of political correctness. PC is a bandaid that masks the true problem; it's really worse than if you let your ill-will hang out on display with a forbidden word. A euphimism still means the same thing; it eventually takes on the meaning in attempted to conceal or replace. Take for example those with less than average mental faculties. See? Does the way I say it change the cold reality of the fact? No. Witness the evolution: touched, dumb, slow, retarded, mentally handicapped, special, differently abled. Do any of these terms do a damn thing but label someone? No. I have a first cousin with Down's Syndrome. Do any of these words have any bearing on her spirit or who she truly is? No. But they help people who are too uncomfortable to walk up and say hello to distance themselves. It's a mask, edifice, balderdash.

Both the prejudice and the hypersensitivity are in heads and hearts, not in the words themselves. In an ideal world we could come together face to face and demonstrate our love for one another regardless of the language we choose. It is hiding behind a label to exclude or denigrate that is wrong. Do not confuse the forest for the trees.

I don't mean to get anyone riled up. I'm sorry if I'm too passionate about this. But we agreed we would explore this issue. Consider this an expansion of the discussion beyond race, to the use of 'bad' words in general. Please bring forth your comments, observations, and rebuttals. And please don't be offended. I have love for all of you whether or not we've met. Let's talk.

yeah. what george said. yeah.

George, thank you for bringing in the importance of the spirit under (and animating) the masks imposed by society.

In scientific / liberal education, I was taught to convey meaning with as precise words as possible. Each word is a potent symbol that attempts to draw forth a world from the minds of those engaged by them. Each syllable is invested with power; for the speaker (writer, signer, etc) to bring forth a world similar in enough respects to the one personally-envisioned requires such great care, tact, and thoughtfulness as to be mind-boggling. Negotiating proper use of language is probably one of the most difficult challenges we face, holding us back from so much understanding and advancement. Hence the fascination with telepathy in sci-fi.

But that's not all life is about, is it? I hew as closely as possible (with many a defect, no doubt) to the principles above. Yet sometimes I need to just let the hair down, let the tongue loose a joke ... to simply not be so damn serious all the time. That is my self-critique. And here we get back to the maleability of language, and the importance of context.

Being pedantically literal, as I too often am, has drawbacks other than boring myself. For instance, it is not uncommon that people do not detect the irony or sarcasm in my voice, inasmuch as so much that I say is meant literally, with meaning kept on the surface. Pedantism also makes it difficult to live in a non-pedantic world, i.e. I take things literally that aren't. And then there's reconciling the beauty of poetry and the sheer-enjoyment of understanding estoteric insinuations with literalism.

This, in short, is a public continuation of an argument with myself, over whether or not to except the term "ghetto" into my personal vocabulary. I hope you have found it stimulating, as I have found all your comments.