delara, interrupted

I've been thinking about this a lot too lately, particularly as my 2 year old daughter feels like she's about to head off to college. The whole discussion of who has the power and responsibiilty to do what in terms of establishing justice is really crucuial and fascinating. Glenn, I could feel you on your comments. It seems that the key point to make is that so much depends on one's position in a society or culture. I have trouble with blanket comments that men aren't doing enough. As a man I think I'm doing everything I know how to do (as a parent I'm definitely always open to new ideas). But in terms of changing the socio-cultural structures that reinforce sexism (or racism or classism or etc.) I don't have that much power. I can't change laws, I can't decide what kinds of models to use for an ad or catalog, I can't decide which pop stars will be famous, or which actresses will get the best roles. And even if I were one of those men, the structure is so huge, has so many supports, and has so much historical/economic/political momentum that I don't know how I would change it. Taking a historical and structural approach to these issues, I think, necessitates that we acknowledge the system and not paint individual men, or women, as all bad people who just have to make the choice to not be sexist/racist/classist/imperialist. Like you said Nas, an accurate picture has to account for individuals and systems both.

nas, I thank you for your reply. I did not expect that, and I appreciate it a lot. It also helped me put both your post and my reading of it into a different perspective.

(I wanted to send this to your via e-mail, but could not find such a link on your blog site.)
-Glenn

i think you make an important point, glenn. i'm sorry if you were put on the defensive -- i wasn't try to invoke any type of rhetoric and i wasn't trying to make anyone defensive. i know that making men defensive won't lead to change.

personally, i am trying as an individual, and my point was that it seems to me that many women are trying, but i don't see near as many men trying. i definitely don't think i said that fixing the problem "exclusively concerns" men. i think i said that we are all responsible -- men and women alike. i just don't think we've all realized that yet. some women haven't, and most men haven't -- that's my perception based on all the observations and conversations and readings of sociological literature of my life.

i think you're right that "i" statements are very useful. but i think it's also necessary to look at broader historical and social trends -- i can't escape the conclusion that that kind of macro-view is vital if there's going to be systemic change. i also think acknowledging the roots of a current problem or injustice enables people to feel like justice has been served and lets them move on to working together to fix the problem -- justice is a prerequisite to unity.

and i don't think any discriminated-against group feels like justice has been served until the roots of their plight -- the relevant historical and sociological factors and trends -- have been acknowledged. and individuals in those groups who are suffering (from low self-esteem, for instance, in the case of women in america) often don't feel empowered until they can look at the bigger picture and realize that it's not just they who are suffering, and that there are powerful, more universal phenomena at work.

in trying to speak to those social dynamics, i don't intend to make anyone defensive. to me, it's just about awareness as a foundation for change.

In my own life, having a mother who is a physician (now retired) makes a difference in how I feel about myself and what I can accomplish. For that reason alone, I think that the education of women will transform the attitudes of both the male and female children of each successive generation.
Equally important were three male relatives (my father, step-father and husband) who were there for me and who showed their caring in their own ways through action. It points to the wisdom one needs in choosing a spouse who will be your partner and father of the next generation.

Hmm... do I wade or do I not? As those who know me will attest, the latter is rarely the option I choose.

See, the post that delara provided got me thinking deeply about my own perceptions and behaviors. The links she provided had me wondering about my current desire to reach a "day I got married" weight and my desire to get into the gym to increase my leg strength to get a much better kick going in soccer. I wondered if I am buying into the "male body image" her links suggested. After such reflection, I am confident that my desires are personal and healthy. (I enjoy playing soccer. I do not enjoy being tired by half-time.)

But I also began wondering about conversations I have had with my wife about her weight, or with my in-laws about theirs. Is my desire for my wife to lose weight patriarchal? Is it sexist? I am not so confident in my position on those questions. See, I do find average weight (read: BMI healthy) women much sexier than overweight women. I do find that I attribute fewer positive characteristics to overweight *strangers* than I do to average weight *strangers*. So I got to wondering. And delara's introspective post prompted that wondering, and a bit of introspection of my own.

But then I read nas' resposne, and after that, lacey's. And I must confess that I found my concern for the result of that introspection to be suddenly less important to me. I found my concern somewhat diminished.

See, where delara had me thinking about my own feelings, thoughts and behavior, nas and lacey had me on the defensive. I found myself in the same state of agitation that I have so frequently felt when entering into a race equality / racism dialog (even, or perhaps *especially* when that dialog is among a group of Baha'is.)

See, I am a man. I cannot stop being a man. (I cannot stop being white.) I would not want to stop being a man. (I refuse to be ashamed that I am white.) And if my *being a man* (my being white) is the cause of all these problems, then the cause simply is not something that can be resolved.

I have no problem speaking to my friends and co-workers (and even mere acquaintances), about how little I appreciate a sexist comment. I have no problem publicly applauding the decision by the Paris Fashion Event sponsors to refuse allowing below-healthy-BMI models to participate in the event, or the British Advertising Authority (I forget the exact name of the ministry) for ruling that ads with under-healthy-BMI models will not be allowed in public venures.

But I doubt very highly that I will do the same in an environment in which the participants are engaged in the kind of rhetoric used by nas and lacey. (I don't know them, and I don't think they know me, and I do feel delara owes neither them nor I any defense in this conversation.)

See, I do NOT believe that "working together on this" can be accomplished if one side of the "us" feels the other side is responsible for acting first. Such an expectation undermines the efforts by individuals, and increases the antagonism involved in the endeavor.

Abdu'l-Baha outlined the tasks required of blacks and whites in the elimination of racism and prejudice. Those tasks are different for blacks than they are for whites. But more important (to me, in my reading of His instructions) was this:

"Let neither think that the solution of so vast a problem is a matter that exclusively concerns the other. Let neither think that such a problem can either easily or immediately be resolved. Let neither think that they can wait confidently for the solution of this problem until the initiative has been taken, and the favorable circumstances created, by agencies that stand outside the orbit of their Faith.
(The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 40)

The rhetoric used by nas and lacey feels too much like finger-pointing for me to confidently agree with - out loud or in silence - what they have said. To much "them" being denounced (where I am a member of the "them") for me to feel remotely confident that there is any "we" in their view of working together.

So, whereas delara's introspection, and comments about what she is doing, isn't doing, has experienced, felt and perceived -- all of her "I" statements got *me* thinking about the same thing. But that thinking was cut short by the rhetoric used in the replies. Once someone started pointing the fingers at me, I found I didn't have the energy or desire to continue looking within me.

To close in a parallel manner to nas' comments...

I personally feel that to implicate anyone but myself in the injustice in the world is to divorce myself from the efforts toward resolution. If I point the finger at anyone else, if I expect a change in behavior from anyone, if I define success by a change in behavior in anyone besides me, then I have ceased to be a proponent of justice, and merely an opponent of something else.

I believe it is much better to rally for than to rally against.

I totally agree with Nas--great entry, D. I was just thinking that there are actually two different issues happening here--our struggle with ourself and then the friction that others create on purpose. We will struggle with ourselves, and that is okay--we just have to stay grounded.

But the answer is Baha'u'llah, plain and simple. He taught humanity that everyone is created from the exact same dust, so a person has no right to "exalt himself" above someone else. I say this because I believe when someone points out your zits or your body hair they are just trying to make themselves feel like they are better than you. And a firm grasp on Baha'u'llah's teachings is our shield against that shit.

But you know, there are stronger times and weaker ones. I love you in both, and I love Nas in both, and I hope you ladies love me in both...but I know you do. I'm so happy to have you in my life :)

preach it, D. i feel you on the body hair, the "healthy" weight, the extended family member and family friend commentary.

and i believe 100% that women's self-images (and especially body images, as body is usually emphasized as the prime component of a woman's "self") are pervasively and damagingly influenced by the media -- a media that most often reflects exaggerated male notions of what an "attractive" women is.

yes, each of us has the responsibility to dismantle the machinery of materliasm and hypersexualization in our society -- men and women alike. but i think it's unfair and insensitive to put the onus on woman alone, or even worse, on any individual woman to somehow completely reject the images and attitudes she is bombarded with and steeped in every day of her life and to miraculously effect some type of radically change in how she perceives her body and her self.

these are very complicated issues and phenomena, and the mere awareness that unhealthy images are being propagated is not enough to strip them of their power and influence (especially sub-consciously) -- no matter how intelligent or spiritual any man or woman is.

yes, we all need to pray and meditate and work as individuals to arrive at a healthier, more moderate perception of our own bodies and our selves, and those of others as well -- again, this goes for men and women. right now, though, it seems that women are making a disproportionate effort on this front just in the name of self-preservation. we might die inside (or even outside, in the case of an eating disorder), if we don't.

and yet, men are not. men have built the dominant structures of our society, and they are still running them for all intents in purposes -- this is especially true of the systems and structures that objectify women and their bodies (from the age-old brothel to the merely decades-old MTV, and everything in between). along the way, many women have become complicit in their own victimization, and they often don't even know it. but many more of us refuse to do so and rail against any attempts by the establishment to make us participate. yet we cannot succeed alone, try as we may... because we are not the ones in power. in the finaly analysis, it is still a man's world.

so if men were to truly take ownership of this issue, to really think about the patriarchy and sexism that has created these images and attitudes, to make genuine efforts to reform their own thought processes and actions, and to speak out passionately to educate their fellow men on the importance of these issues and to demand real change... women would have far less reason to worry about the continued survival of their sense of self and self-worth, and far less occasion to struggle so assiduously (and sometimes so futiley) to change things.

yes, we must all work together. but i think right now, men are the ones lagging in this regard -- which is why nothing has changed yet. if we are to see society advance one iota on this dimension, the overwhelming effort must be made by men.

and i personally feel that to deny that fact is to exhibit exactly the type of insensitivity and apathy to the plight of women (and in turn, humanity) that has helped to get us to this disgusting state in the first place.